Advice: Women Entering the Workplace for the First Time
by Francesca Carmaz
Introduction & Thank You:
This month, 50/50 Leadership members were asked to reflect on their initial experience in the workplace and share their advice for other young women beginning to work for the first time.
Thank you to the board members: Noemi Van Aken, Ria Severance, Kirsti Damato, and Rachel Yegiaian for responding to this month’s questions.
What would you say to young women who are just starting to work?
Noemi Van Aken:
“Be a sponge, learn as much as possible from everyone around you.”
Ria Severance:
“Work your butt off to create a career before you have kids, as much as possible. Aim for a career that allows you as much autonomy as possible. Work for and learn from people who have their own businesses. I have worked for myself most of my life and it affords a number of advantages:
Great tax write-offs.
Setting your own hours makes it possible to focus on children while they're in need of your focus and attention (i.e. til they launch at 18!) -- also makes it easier to tag-team parenting care with a collaborative partner.
Set your own vacation around your family's parameters.
Plan before even having children on doing work that doesn't consume you -- something you can leave or learn to leave behind when you leave work every day. If you're consumed by work it's hard to be present to parent, much less sustain an intimate relationship and have anything for yourself. You end up feeling like you’re never cutting it at work or at home. Women are plagued by that feeling all the time.”
Kirsti Damato:
“It's important to find a mentor but equally important to find a ‘sponsor’. A mentor will help give you advice and guide you through your career, but a sponsor is someone who can get your back and suggest you for that position or push for your promotion and help you move up and bring opportunities to you.”
Rachel Yegiaian:
“Keep all options open and always network with people what you are interested in even if you are in a position you are happy with. This helps people know what you want and keep you in mind for opportunities. Also, always keep your resume updated -- at least every 6 months!”
What is something you know about being a working woman you wish you had known earlier in your career?
Noemi Van Aken:
“I wish I would have had the confidence when I was just starting out to set boundaries to create more of a work/life balance. Also, I wish I wouldn’t have waited so long to start a family. I always put my career first and there is nothing wrong with this but I do feel I waited slightly too long.”
Ria Severance:
“I know it's unpopular to say this, but I thought women could do and have it all -- career as well as compassionate, community-minded, skilled and hard-working kids. Unless you are wealthy and can pay for ample child support, I don't actually think this is usually possible, yet at this point in our evolution, and depending on the job and the specialty you've chosen.
“I remember being at the top of my class throughout school, and in college and grad school. When I had my first child, it was quite a blow to realize that I would never be able to read all those articles, write all those articles or take all those trainings, if I wanted to show up in critical ways for my kid.
“If you're in the financial sector and can pay for great childcare, or a doctor, say, in a private group practice, you may be able to set your own hours, for example, and do pick-ups and drop-offs for kids and still be there for them after school. Some of the hardest jobs, if you're trying to be a mother, are being a CPA or a litigating lawyer in a law firm. Both require long hours to meet stressful, unyielding deadlines and women are often not viewed as dedicated, committed or supremely capable when they prioritize their families.
“Most working women miss being free to parent as needed. It's too-often an either/or proposition for women. If you're busy climbing the corporate ladder, there's something significant you'll miss in the raising of your kids, and vice versa. Really bummed me out until I made a conscious and deliberate choice to choose raising my children and work 2 long days and a half day. But my ego and my sense of security, competence and independence in the world suffered at some level. I'd do it all again, and am clear about what my choice made possible for my kids, and the reality is that I had no clear idea that such a choice was ahead of me before I had kids. We’re told we can balance work and family life and we can’t. There’s always a trade-off. Best to make this choice consciously or you’ll be an anxious wreck both at home and at work.
“If you have the option, choose to work fewer long days, rather than a bunch of short days (e.g. 4-5 hours/day). If you're nursing, your brain just is not going to be as focused as it was. Your biochemistry is wired to surrender to the needs of a child -- not to kicking ass on work projects requiring the deep analysis of data, for example. Working short days will make you nuts because as soon as you get into something, it's time to leave and relieve the caregiver -- you risk feeling like you're never getting anything done at work or at home. I worked 2, 12-hour days that started early and a half day, with full days off in between. That made it possible to focus wherever I was. I remember it made a huge difference for other women as well who switched to longer work days in favor of full days with family. It's also not as hard as you might think to get child care for such long hours. Usually caregivers are women, like us, and the time to be with their kids is equally valued by them.
“I guess another thing is to choose a caregiver like you'd choose a partner. Don't expect them to prioritize housework while your kids are demanding, needing to learn social skills, etc. and full of mischief. Tell them to do what they can and help them prioritize. Your kids need someone who will and can actually play with them and join their games. At the same time, you also don't want someone who's going to submit to your kids' whims all day because the caregiver is afraid they’ll complain to you. In general, you don't want to let your kids behave with you or the caregiver in ways that won't work for them in the world beyond your home. For example, you need to teach them to express themselves with you in ways that will also work with their peers, their teachers, their future employers and partners. They need clear, loving boundaries if they're going to be effective in their own lives.
“You don't want your kids thinking they can walk all over your caregiver. You want them to know ‘s/he's in charge’ when you're away. ‘You mess with her, you mess with me.’ That's the kind of trust you need to have.
“And you want your kids securely attached to that caregiver -- not just you. Without that secure attachment in your absence, or with constantly changing sitters, your kids can't develop in the same ways. It always fries me when moms are insecure when their kids are attached and seek the love and care of your caregiver. You need that -- for your kids sake. And so you need to be a mutually respectful team. I spent hours training my caregiver in parenting strategies. She wasn't ‘educated’ formally in any way, but she was smart as a whip. And supremely loving.
“I didn't even let the grandmothers babysit until they took a parenting class. It's not about shutting kids down and just ‘being strict.’ It's about thinking through what they could say instead, and teaching them early, on the spot, how to approach you and use language in ways that will work for them in the world beyond your purview. With my own kids, I'd require effective, age-appropriate language, before they'd get what they wanted. My favorite example is when my youngest was two and a half, I picked him up from 3 hours at pre-school, and I was driving, yapping away at him while he was in the car seat in the back. He suddenly screamed ‘shut up!!!’ My first reaction was to get huffy internally and think: ‘I never talk to him that way -- he must be picking that up at school.’ That kind of language is triggering for adults and my impulse was to blame the school. I sat with it for a moment and scrambled to think. Oh. He's tired. He's played to his heart's content and now I'm talking, he's fried and it's overwhelming. What could he say to a friend or teacher under similar circumstances that won't piss them off? So I modeled in a calm tone he knew by then to repeat . . . ‘I need to be quiet now please.’ And he repeated ‘Quiet now peas.’ So I could respond, ‘Ok, honey,’ and he passed out two seconds later.” The quality of your caregiver, and that relationship, is every bit as important to you and your family’s well being as who you choose as your spouse.
Kirsti Damato:
“There is no such thing as a perfect work-life balance. Sometimes work will take over your personal life and sometimes your personal life will need to take priority over work, but you need to learn to be flexible and comfortable with bending and prioritizing so stop telling women that they need to find work-life balance. It doesn't truly exist.”
Rachel Yegiaian:
“Aim higher than you think and ask for help to get there -- it's human nature to want to help others so ask for help to network and do more than you think you can! 15 years into my career, and I still struggle with this!”
What do you wish more people knew about women in the workplace?
Noemi Van Aken:
“I wish there was more of an awareness about the pull on women in the workplace between career, family, friends, self, etc.”
Ria Severance:
“Well the first thing that comes to mind isn't the usual thing. Parents often don't realize that we don't graduate from college these days and get a great job. That's just not how it works. McDonald's is hiring college graduates with no experience. No kidding.
“Kids need YOU to find them internships where they volunteer in areas of interest when they start high school. Work experience in areas of interest is EVERYTHING. If they volunteer and learn to work in areas of interest, and are ready to do so by high school, then they qualify for work study and other internships in college -- otherwise they end up as a cashier for work study in college and they have no work experience when they graduate. They have a degree but they're officially unemployable.
“Even if you make no money in high school, you need to work and test out your areas of interest, and think that through, or get help to think that through. That way when you get to college you know your next career step - where you need to learn and gain experience you can use when you graduate. Working at a pizza place on campus or in high school isn't going to cut it in the long term. I waitressed my way through college at a fancy restaurant with great tips for short shifts, but also had unpaid and then some paid internships throughout. Parents who tell their kids – their daughters and sons – ‘I don’t want you to have to work and go to high school/college’ do their kids a terrible disservice. They need to learn early how to hone sniffing out their interest, and the experience they need to go with that, if they’re to be employed at something other than minimum wage when they graduate.
Kirsti Damato:
“Women need to be sponsored in the office. Women tend to be over mentored and under sponsored. Meaning, there are lots of women (and men) who mentor women but when it comes to needing sponsorship and support to get promoted, get new opportunities and move up, women don't have enough higher-ups pushing for them to go for those positions or offering up those positions to other women.”
Rachel Yegiaian:
“We juggle a lot -- with our own parents and families and as we have our own families, the responsibilities never stop! But we can multi-task and juggle no other!”
How can young women entering a work environment for the first time make sure their voice is heard?
Noemi Van Aken:
“Speak up and be confident. Even if you are not, fake it until you make it. Don’t be invisible.”
Ria Severance:
“This is a big one. Well the first thing that occurs to me is that it depends on the work environment. Some workplaces just aren't conducive to anyone having a voice. Picture Walmart. There's no way a young woman can ‘make sure her voice is heard’ in that kind of environment that pushes workers with no regard for their wellbeing.
“So maybe the first thing is to find work where you can learn, and move up with experience and training in your area of interest, and where workers are actually empowered to collaborate, grow and learn. If people at the top of an organization don't have that approach, it's not likely anyone under them will have that experience. In my business (therapist and consultant), we call this ‘parallel process’: the dynamics between people at top levels of power in an organization are always reflected in the dynamics between workers at the lower levels of power.
“As an example, I lasted 3 weeks at a restaurant/bar in college. It was like a roller derby between the waitresses fighting for tables to serve and the related tips. The owners liked it that way because they sold, or thought they sold, more drinks when competition was high, instead of assigning tables/stations to different waitresses. It was miserable. Then I went to work for another fancy restaurant where former busboys had moved into management positions. Although a male-dominated place, these guys knew what it was like at the bottom, and the waitresses and staff really worked together in a collaborative, fun spirit. (I did have to go after the managers to allow women to serve the banquets with higher pre-paid tips, asserting that we were every bit as capable of carrying heavier food trays. I did not push on moving women into management because the reality was that all the women, and none of the men, were college students who didn't want full-time management jobs that would interfere with studies.)
“Secondly, you have to have a voice for someone to hear it. How you use language with your voice makes a powerful difference. If you just judge, whine and complain that this or that ‘isn't fair or right,’ as in most relationships, that's not going to be effective. Negative judgments are inherently alienating -- they alienate us from others (even if we don't say it outloud!) and they alienate us from ourselves. If I think to myself "You're an idiot" -- that's the end of it in my own thought process.
“Once I judge you, I slam a mental door not just on you, but on my own self-reflection about my part in matters, and I slam the door on thinking about what's going to be most effective for me and for us in this given situation. What do you do instead of complaining? Describe the challenge in neutral, non-judgmental and blame-free ways. Like a video-camera would. Avoid making negative assumptions if you want to be respected (e.g. "Hmm. I worked 10 hours, and 'it seems' I've been paid for 5. Can you help shed some light on this?" vs "You're trying to rip me off," "I work my butt off for you, and this is how you treat me?").
“When you feel yourself wanting to make a list of everything ‘that's wrong’ that you don't want or like, and to hurl that at someone, take a break. Then think. Work backwards to figure out the very specific behaviors that you do want, and ask respectfully for that. It helps to take time to also really figure out what the other person(s) you're dealing with are up against -- what problem(s) are they struggling with. Look for win-win solutions to challenges.
“If you're only thinking about what's challenging you, you'll have a very limited view and effect. If you wait, and figure out what the bigger picture is that you're operating in, and therefore the bigger ‘problem,’ you can start to think about how to solve that in a way that works for everyone, not just you. That leaves you with a better shot at getting what you want. Ask, when you can, not only for what you want/need, but for what solves things for everyone involved.
“And be prepared for what alternative to do/say when you get a ‘no.’ Ultimatums rarely work and they come off as tantrummy. Depending on the situation, ultimatums usually are experienced as a ‘my way or the highway’ approach and you risk losing respect, even if you feel powerful for 30 seconds. It’s all in the tone and approach you take.
“Thirty years ago, I was working for a hospital program and I figured out how to make them $4k in an hour and a half. They still wanted to pay me $30/hour even though I set up the program and was an independent contractor. I asked for $100/hour and they said ‘no.’ It was super annoying, but I kind of expected as much. I definitely had the impulse to quit. But I didn’t threaten. In some job situations if something is truly intolerable, then by all means leave. But try and leave on a respectful note that doesn’t burn your current employer’s recommendations to your future employers.
“The pay increase wasn't blocked by my boss -- it was my boss' corporate boss. I wasn't happy about it, and I didn't take it out on my boss. I sensed she liked and appreciated me and I could tell she felt badly about it.
“So I thought, What can I do that doesn't get her in trouble and removes the obstacles for her? After a few days, I asked: ‘When clients finish the hospital program [that paid me $30/hour even for individual therapy back in the day!], and say they want to continue with me, if I were to give them 3 referrals of people they can see in the hospital program, and document that, and they still want to see me, is there a problem if they pursue me anyhow for therapy in my private practice? I don't want to create a conflict of interest with the program.’ She grinned. ‘Nope. That would be totally kosher.’ I figured out and solved her problem (the obstacles to her giving me more money), without putting her in a position to have to figure out and ‘conspire’ with me ‘against’ the program, and I filled my private practice with people who could pay me $100 (lots at the time). In the end I was working for a few hours at $30, and it was allowing me to make 3 times that for the majority of hours a week.
“So back to asking for specific behavior rather than criticizing or complaining. When we criticize and complain, others just shut down. No one wants to listen to that. Especially if it's ongoing. This is true in friendships, intimate relationships, with colleagues and at work. To do ask respectfully for the specific behavior we want, we have to give up ‘being right’ in order to do what’s effective. And it’s more vulnerable to ask for what you want, rather than moaning about what you don’t like. It’s ‘You’re so disrespectful towards me!’ vs ‘Are you willing to use a more respectful tone with me?’
“Ok -- so there are times with a friend you might want to download -- but you gotta ask permission before you do and check in with the person – and it’s not at them – the purpose is to get your head clear. And you can't just launch into your thing with someone you trust. It's negative and draining to be on the receiving end of that, and if your friend is busy, it's also stressful for them because they don’t want to shut you down but they’ve got something that needs handling.
“I was fuming at a sexist male colleague who was dismissive and invalidating, and I knew he didn't even know he was doing that. I got off the phone with him because I knew I was too mad to address it in the moment without killing him (figuratively). This is rare for me, but it happens. I called a close friend and asked if she had 10 minutes to just hear me out so I could get through it. If she had said, ‘No, I'm not really up for that -- I'm buried with a deadline – I can tomorrow,’ I would have totally accepted that and understood. I haven't called a friend for something like that in the past year. It was literally 10 mins. I cried. I fumed. It was done. Partially.
“The sexist male colleague is smart, albeit as sexist as they get, with the emotional IQ of a cockroach. The likelihood of having some kind of ‘real understanding’ between us was nil. We have to deal with the reality of who the other person is and what they're capable of, based on what they've shown us. I’ve heard adults and even seen pre-school teachers teach kids to say, ‘It hurts my feelings when you don’t share,’ when a buddy wouldn’t share a toy. Preschoolers don’t care if they hurt your feelings for the most part, and that doesn’t let your 3-year-old friend know what you want. That statement, ‘I feel hurt when you don’t share’ also blames/induces guilt and it just teaches kids to act like victims. That is not the same as having an effective voice. If you teach your 3-year-old to say, “Can I have it when you’re done?” 8 times out of 10 they’ll get the toy. The ‘when you’re done’ acknowledges that it’s the other kid’s toy at this moment, until that kid is done, and it teaches your kid to wait his/her turn. If your kid says, ‘Can I have it?’ the other kid will likely say ‘no.’
“You can't be expecting people to be or do other than what they've shown you they are actually able to be and do. In my case, the sexist guy had done similar things to other women, and male colleagues as well. It was clear. ‘Sharing my feelings’ with a sexist colleague who's going to just defend and deflect is also utterly pointless. So the most I could do is stop him from feeling comfortable doing what he does, and thinking it's going to work for him, without adverse consequences. And so how do I do that? without just downloading my anger or being vindictive -- all of which I felt.
“Why not just download about what a disrespectful sexist pig he is in the name of ‘expressing myself?’ A few reasons. He's got as much right to his neuroses, childhood, upbringing, cultural context, etc. as I do to mine. I don't have to like it, or him! But I do need to ‘get’ that everyone's got their story. (What they do with it is their responsibility -- just as it is mine.)
“Also, if I just download as my 3-year-old once put it: ‘I just want to get the bad feelings out of me and into you!’ That's what adults call ‘acting out.’ It's the psychological equivalent of punching someone. And for me, it's where ‘free speech’ ends, so it would violate my own values and therefore my self-respect.
“There are also a host of other reasons not to download in the name of ‘expressing myself’. . . but I'll just list one more. It doesn't generally work to just ‘let others have a piece of your mind.’ It could intimidate. It might shut them down momentarily. And in a situation where your survival is truly at stake, by all means do whatever it takes! But if you have to be in ongoing contact with a person, it's not generally effective and it does damage to the relationship that may have adverse ripple effects for you. So you want to consider those.
“My sexist colleague had basically sent me metaphorically to ‘the principal's office,’ convinced somehow that I'd been insubordinate for having an idea that was different from his. He didn't say that explicitly -- but I knew that was it. Although we were peers, he expected me to ‘obey,’ essentially without challenging his ideas – ‘ideas’ that were really orders. He was essentially offended and reactive against an idea that differed from his.‘The principal’ was a nice young guy who, I think, thought he was supposed to listen nicely to me, and talk me off a ledge (the reality was that the only one on a ledge was the sexist, and I was definitely feeling the impulse to push him right off that ledge – not that I’d do it). After talking with my friend, though, I was chill and called ‘the principal’ back. He asked ‘what the problem was.’ Often that’s employment speak for checking out whether YOU are the problem.
“I didn’t launch into how nasty my colleague was to me, or get busy being offended or defensive when I described ‘the problem.’ I thought in terms of this sexist guy’s ‘effectiveness’ and the impact on him and the team. I kept it neutral, nonjudgmental and blame-free. I said there wasn't really ‘a problem’ per se -- that ‘I noticed’ that this [sexist] guy has trouble listening to people. He ‘seems to struggle’ to verbally communicate his understanding of what someone's said, before he launches into his own thing, and he does it with other male colleagues, with clients -- and particularly with women. I said that he ‘inadvertently’ [as in he is clueless] runs over people in the process, so he can sometimes come off as disrespectful and can piss people off. And then he’s offended when he gets pushback.
“I didn't make it ‘personal’ or about just me. It truly does affect client- and team-relations, and therefore the bottom line financially for everyone. My colleague doesn't just do this to me. If I get busy making ‘the problem’ just about him and his adverse effect on me, I'm also less credible. It's about the team as a whole and our effectiveness.
"‘The principal’ asked if I wanted him to talk to my colleague about it (as if I couldn't talk to him myself?!). I said, ‘No, thank you.’ I clarified that it could risk [don't presume to mindread!] making my colleague resentful or leave him feeling like I was tattling on him or something similar. I acknowledged the principal's desire to help. And then focused on how he might ‘empower’ the Sexist.
“I suggested that ‘it might’ be most effective and empowering for my colleague, if the principal were to just notice when my colleague acts this way with the principal. [Although ‘the principal’ is younger, he's male and has some ‘authority’ over my colleague, and so my colleague is more likely to hear ‘the principal’ than others he hopes to dominate.] If the principal were to just wait for this tendency to talk over/at people to come up naturally in conversation, I thought addressing it then might be ‘most effective.’ I suggested that it might be most helpful to my colleague if the principal were to ‘just notice’ this out loud and then ‘wonder’ out loud about the impact:
"I notice that when I say something you go onto your own idea without actually acknowledging that you heard what I just said? It's happened a couple of times now in our conversation. Did you notice that?" [Then . . .] "I wonder how this might impact your team relationships and relationships with clients? Have any thoughts about that?"
‘The principal’ was now taking notes for himself, agreed and thanked me. And my colleague never did what he’d done again in the same adversarial, hostile way. And when he did talk over me, I addressed it on the spot, publicly and calmly:
"I'm not sure you heard what I just said, and you've gone onto your own idea – I’m happy to hear your idea too -- it’s not clear that you heard what I just said?”
“I will never be this guy's close friend, but it's at least much harder for him to run over people without expecting and having to tolerate respectful pushback.
“Ah women. What a wild and wonderful bunch we can be. More another day . . .”
Kirsti Damato:
“Get involved with little things like ERG (employee resource groups) or company sports or volunteer opportunities. This gives you exposure to other people in the company and will help allow you to get your voice heard if you need to. It is all about networking both outside of and inside of work and the office.”
Rachel Yegiaian:
“Make sure you work for a good manager! During the hiring process, your job is to interview the hiring manager to make sure that you can grow in the position as you want to and to be heard. One of the top reasons people quit jobs is due to bad management so if you want to succeed and have your voice heard and your needs met, pick a good manager to work for!”